UK Air Crash Sites Photos

Here's my flickr site, with my archive of crash site photos. You can see grid refs/coordinates for all of the pictured sites on here.

Republic P-47D-1-RE Thunderbolts, 42-7872 and 42-7898

I had a great day out with Ian DB last Saturday on and around Shining Tor, near Macclesfield. All of the pics for these four sites are c/o Ian, who is a lot better at photography than I am. You can see more examples of this at his site here.

This pic shows the leading plane's impact crater. All of the wreckage seen last time is gone, though a bit of skinning and a new cross have replaced it. The nearby crater of the following plane no longer has any visible wreckage t all.

These two sites are a bit awkward to get to, well away from the path, over a fence and down some steepish roughish ground. There is no reason to suspect they are there is you don't know that they are. This is not the work of "curious walkers". It smells of anorak to me.

Locations:

SJ 99502 75395 (leading)
SJ 99502 75410 (following)

Noorduyn UC-64A Norseman 43-35439

The disputed Norseman site looks much the same as last time we visited, and established that it was a US 'plane rather than Defiant Mk.I T3921, as some had claimed.

Location: SJ 99831 73579

North American F. Mk.4 Sabres (or are they Canadair CL-13s?) XD707 and XD730 :

Pat Cunningham (in the pic) offers the following information about the crash of two Sabres from No.66 Squadron, RAF Linton-on-Ouse, No. 12 Group, Fighter Command onto Kinder Scout and Black Ashop Moor on 22 July 1954 in which the formating pilots (Flying Officer James D. Horne, section leader (XD707) and Flight Lieutenant Alan Green, formating pilot (XD730)) were both killed.

When Russian-built swept-wing MiG-15 jet fighters were encountered in Korea in 1950, British manufacturers had nothing to match them. British transonic swept-wing fighters were under development to replace the straight-winged subsonic Meteors and Vampires, but until the Hunter arrived in 1955, Canadian-built Sabres filled the void. Held to be pleasant to fly, most of the Sabres were based in Germany, but No.66 Squadron was among those units equipped with them in Britain.

So it was that on 22 July 1954, four of the No.66 Squadron Sabres were recovering to Linton-on-Ouse, near York, after a high-level interception sortie flown in the course of a major annual-evaluation war-game. For the descent, the formation leader had split his section into pairs, each pair entering cloud independently at 12,000 feet.

Some time later, as his pair passed 5,000 feet, still in cloud, the overall leader transmitted an advisory warning to Flying Officer James Horne, now leading the second pair, against descending below 3,000 feet on their present heading: the more realistic safety height of the future was to be 3,800 feet. The foursome had noted already that Flying Officer Horne’s radio was weak at times, so he may not have heard the warning; certainly, he did not acknowledge.

Indeed nothing more was heard of him, or of his number two, until three days later when a walker came upon a body on The Edge, high above Black Ashop Moor. Until this discovery bad weather had hampered the search, although the keeper of the Kinder Reservoir had reported being alarmed by two jet fighters roaring at very low level towards cloud-covered Kinder. Despite his concern, however, he had heard no subsequent impact.

These aircraft had undoubtedly been the two Sabres, although what made Flying Officer Horne take his number two that low will never be known. A likely scenario, however, is that he saw a clearance below him, and dropped into what turned out to be a ‘sucker’s gap’ – a beckoning clearance which then closed in around him. Certainly, in his evidently hasty pull for a safe height, he managed to clear the edge of Kinder, but equally evidently something untoward happened after he had done so, for both aircraft struck the ground in a single impact point not many yards into the plateau.

To conjecture further, although Flight Lieutenant Alan Green, the number two, was more experienced than his leader, he was still settling in having been posted from another squadron. It could be then, that, caught out by the hastily initiated transition from level flight to very steep climb, he had – understandably – twitched just that little bit, causing his wingtip to lock with his leader’s tail. Or what is equally likely, bearing in mind that both aircraft were in very steep climbing attitudes, is that, in reaction to his leader’s over-hasty pull, Flight Lieutenant Green had pulled even harder, got high, and being momentarily unsighted from his leader, had collided in blindly pushing back into position.

The court of inquiry, however, did not treat with such speculation, finding only that Flying Officer Horne, as section leader, had failed to observe the area safety height – which he should have been familiar with regardless of any missed transmission – although it found some little mitigation in his faulty radio. It specifically noted that no blame was to be attached to Flight Lieutenant Green, whose sole responsibility had been to formate upon his leader.

Locations

SK 06926 89664 Kinder: initial impact point, start of debris trail (illustrated above)

SK 07268 90236 Black Ashop Moor: wings, gear, with an engine in an adjacent grough

SK 07300 90100 Black Ashop Moor, two debris pools

SK 07548 90390 Black Ashop Moor, the second engine

I note that there is a lot less here then in my last pic. Theft and vandalism by sad anoraks as usual.

Douglas Skymaster C-54G-5-DO 45-543

A day out in the Trough of Bowland with some Flickr buddies as well as Hal and Steve located this undercarriage leg from a cargo 'plane whose instruments were supposedly seduced when returning from the Berlin airlift by the call of a commercial radio station to fly into Stake House Fell.

Were there any commercial radio stations in 1949? Wotherspoon's suggestion of a BBC station seems more likely.

Location:SD 55650 49425
More info: here

Diggers Thwarted in Wales

New CADW guidelines (ISBN 978 1 85760 267 8) set out a rigorous code of best practice which should see the archaeologically worthless activities of the so-called "aviation archaeologists" pretty much stopped in Wales. Nice work, CADW!

The guidelines basically require excavation to be carried out in a professional manner, in accordance with the archaeologist's code of conduct, standard and guidance for archaeological excavation.

JCBs will not be featuring in future excavations.

They also intend to enforce preservation in-situ of nationally important sites, and the scheduling of crash sites as ancient monuments.

Amateur hour is over, boyos! And not a moment too soon.

Avro Anson Mk. I EG472

Avro Anson EG472
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

We approached Moel Hebog from a new direction yesterday, resulting in our locating the undercarriage, wheels, fuel tank and other less recognisable wreckage left by the crash of Anson EG472 into the mountain, (and of course the subsequent raiding by local "aviation archaeologists" for their mickey mouse "museum").

It wasn't as easy as we expected, as chest-high bracken which didn't show on the map impeded our progress up the steepest part of the hill.

The picture shows a detail from the undercarriage winding gear of Avro Anson EG472 of 9 OAFU Llandwrog which crashed on the 13th of June 1944 into Moel Hebog (above Beddgelert in Snowdonia).

The 'plane reportedly flew into the North face of the mountain in low cloud and bad visibility on a night navigation exercise.

Turbulence was experienced at 6,000 ft and the Bombardier asked the pilot if he could descend to a calmer altitude.

The Navigator stated they were over Hawarden so the descent was made and the aircraft struck the mountain. One Sgt. Howard was thrown clear and survived, but the other four crew were all killed in the crash.

We don't normally bother with crash report details on here, but there's nothing on the internet about the circumstances of this crash at present.

Location: SH 56890 46948

De Havilland Mosquito Mk.III TV982

De Havilland Mosquito Mk.III TV982
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig2

Detail from collection further upstream

Location: SH 61085 52982

Martin Marauder B-26G 44-68072

Martin Marauder B-26G 44-68072
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

Site proving debris

More info

Fi-103 (V-1) Cruise Missile: Langsett

On Featherbed Top on Howden Moor, there is a bare patch which many including Alan Clark and Pat Cunningham have claimed is the site of a V1 crash. We have visited the site a couple of times previously, and gone with the consensus identification up to now, but we no longer think that the consensus is correct.

Following information received, we have looked into claims from "Tomsk" that this site is not in fact a V1 crater, but that the true crater lies 3/4 km away. After visiting the alternative location today, we are happy that this is the case, for the following reasons:

1. The new crater (illustrated) is very similar in appearance to the one on Black Edge, known to be a V1 site.

2. We found twisted, rusty heavy gauge steel components (illustrated) around the crater identical in appearance to those we found at the Black Edge site. Mick's doing his Big Vern face in this shot.

3. The aluminium parts we found previously (now removed by persons unknown) at the supposed V1 crater correspond to nothing we have seen at V1 sites elsewhere.

4. We have seen no other V1 sites which are a flat black scar on the peat like the supposed V1 site on Howden Moor. All other sites are sharp-sided craters like the new candidate.

5. We have evidence from Tomsk that scraps found at the supposed V1 crater come instead from a Luftmine B parachute mine. Here's a Luftmine B:

Note the distinctive cross section of the fins, and their five rivets. Here's a bit recovered from the old site with that cross section and five rivets:

6. Tomsk also identifies parts found at the new site as belonging to a V1. Here's the bolt which holds the warhead on on a museum piece:

Here's something which looks very similar recovered from the site:

Here's the guillotine mechanism which cuts the cables to send the V1 into a dive:

So our initial scepticism has been greatly tempered. The new location seems far more likely to be correct than the commonly held one. The sixth comment on this post also contains seemingly confirmatory information from the Imperial War Museum including these pics. Thanks Dave.

It'll be interesting if others modify their opinions and websites to suit. More interesting still will be who they credit-Mick tells me that Alan Clark for one is simply following us around the sites we have visited in Wales nowadays without crediting us, judging by the updates to his site.

New Location: SK 18224 97083

Avro Lancaster W4929 Coded AJ-J

AVRO LANCASTER W4929 CODED AJ-J
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

The bent crankshafts from two Merlin engines in the foreground and just behind Mick are some of the largest bits in this 4m by 20m scar left in the hillside by the impact of a Lancaster bomber.

Location: SN 82793 23892

We have received the following information about this site from the aircrew remembrance society:

Lancaster W4929 H.C.U. crashed on the 5th September 1943 with the loss of all the crew:

Took off from Winthorpe for a night cross country training flight. They flew into a heavy storm over the Brecon Beacons and crashed at 23.20hrs.

Two of the commonwealth crew are buried in Hereford Cemetery (F/O Folkersen R.C.A.F. Fl/Sgt. Buckby R.A.A.F.), Sgt Curran was interred in Bath Cemetery. P/O Duxbury and Sgt Holding are buried in Standish, Wigan. Sgt Wilson is buried in Clitheroe Cemetery, Sgt Pratt at Hemel Hempstead, P/O Johnson D.F.M. was cremated at Woking Crematorium.

Blackburn Botha Mk.I L6202 coded 6-20

Blackburn Botha L6202: Llwytmor
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

The highest, and most commonly found engine from this Botha, which crashed on Llwytmor on the 28th August 1943 while on a training flight from Hooton Park near Ellesmere Port.

There is plenty more wreckage all over the hillside in the vicinity of this engine, which is located very close to the aircraft's impact site.

Location: SH 68378 69129

Blackburn Botha Mk.I L6202 coded 6-20

Blackburn Botha L6202: Llwytmor
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

The elusive second engine from the Botha below the waterfall on Afon Goch.

This is 570m from the other, more commonly photographed one stuck in the crack in the rocks, and is the only picture of this lower engine on the 'net. Others say they have seen it, but as so often the case in the world of "wreckology", they offer no proof.

Location: SH 67810 69131

More info

Kinder Six

Handley Page Heyford Mk.III K6875
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

Out onto Kinder yesterday to look at a few wrecks as a map and compass navex with Moustache Steve.

Over ten muddy miles, we revisited the Halifax and Wellington by Ringing Roger, the Wellington above Grindsbrook Clough, the Anson and Dragon Rapide on Edale Moor, and the Heyford on Broadlee Bank Tor. A little digging was evident at this last site, and the memorial cross had disappeared (illustrated above) .

There was also a bit of of artistic rearrangement at the Dragon Rapide (below).


De Havilland Dragon Rapide G-ALBC
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

Other than that, all was well with the sites we visited.

An interesting thing happened out on Edale Moor-both GPS units started reading consistently about 1km out. This was the first time I have been convinced that GPS units were wrong based on my map and compass navigation. Might have been something to do with the thick hail clouds above us.

It's a scary thing being out there in the middle of Kinder if you are not 100% sure where you are!

Armstrong Vickers Wellington BJ697

Wellington BJ697
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

All that is left at the September 1942 crash site of the Wellington from 12 Operational Training Unit, Chipping Warden. No sign of the exploded ammo reported by others. Souvenir hunters!

"GPSWalker" unusually gave the the most accurate position for this site, prior to ours:

Location: SN 83250 18390

More info

World's End

World's End
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

Went up to a place called World's End above Minera (near Wrexham)on Monday in a fair bit of snow looking for some of the wrecks up there. Four are given in High Ground Wrecks: Beaufighter NE203, Spitfire TE210, Fulmar N4074, and Master N7442.

As with last week in Yorkshire, we found nothing anywhere near the HGW coordinates for the ones we got to.

A great day out though, and we had the added excitement of very nearly losing the Landy over a steep bank. Excitement is not quite the right word though, we were a few inches from a 30m drop sideways.

The road is basically impassable in any amount of snow, as even locals were finding out the hard way. Quite a few people went past points of no return, and we had to take a couple of carfuls back down to safety as dark closed in. I should imagine this has been world's end for a few drivers over the years, as well as all those pilots.

Avro Lancaster Mk. I W4326 'C' Charlie

Dolwen Lancaster
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

The smaller of the two wreckage piles with its home-made memorial stone.

Someone seems to have claimed the site for Wales, despite the crew being from Canada and New Zealand in the main, and the aircraft having flown from 101 Group in Yorkshire.

Location: SH 95433 09203

More info

Republic P-47D Thunderbolt 42-75101

Pile: Thunderbolt 42-75101
Originally uploaded by wreckhunter

The largest pile of bits, (probably collected in this gully by the recovery team) is maybe 20 metres into the woods behind the engine.

Location: SH 88470 14434

More info

Republic P-47D Thunderbolt 42-75101

Pile: Thunderbolt 42-75101
Originally uploaded by wreckhunter

Detail from the pile of skinning and components nearerest to the edge of the wood

Location: SH 88453 14438

More info

Consolidated B-24 J Liberator 42-99991 "Bachelors Baby"

Liberator-Batchelor's Baby: Moelfre
Originally uploaded by wreckhunter

Memorial to the five human crew killed in the 1942 crash of this American heavy bomber, and their dog "Booster", who was interred at the site.

The site is a full 82 m from the six decimal place coordinates given on the "GPS Walker" site. Perhaps that is why Alan Clark is happy to carry a link to that inaccurate and ill-maintained site and not to ours. No-one is going to find much from "GPS Walker"'s coordinates.

Since the site's title implies that GPS is being used for navigation and production of coordinates, we have no idea how the coordinates published on the website can be so far out.

We have had no success in contacting "GPS Walker", but if you are out there, your comments are invited. We link below our +/-3m accurate coordinates to the relevant page of "GPS Walker"'s site.

Location: SH 71564 74345

More info