Up onto yet another Whernside in Yorkshire, this one above the Ribblehead Viaduct (pictured). Interesting weather and light throughout the day, Mick got some good snaps.
A relatively easy walk, only 12k and not too much ascent to see a couple of WWII wreck sites. What with having had swine flu and so on, we weren't up for a mad yomp. Nice walk, and down in time for tea for once.
Despite High Ground Wrecks being as rubbish as ever in Yorkshire, we found both sites we were going for. I hadn't realised how much these two sites had been picked over by wreckologists until I did the post-walk research. Sad. But then they are sad.
1. The new crater (illustrated) is very similar in appearance to the one on Black Edge, known to be a V1 site.
4. We have seen no other V1 sites which are a flat black scar on the peat like the supposed V1 site on Howden Moor. All other sites are sharp-sided craters like the new candidate.
5. We have evidence from Tomsk that scraps found at the supposed V1 crater come instead from a Luftmine B parachute mine. Here's a Luftmine B:
Note the distinctive cross section of the fins, and their five rivets. Here's a bit recovered from the old site with that cross section and five rivets:
6. Tomsk also identifies parts found at the new site as belonging to a V1. Here's the bolt which holds the warhead on on a museum piece:
Here's something which looks very similar recovered from the site:
Here's the guillotine mechanism which cuts the cables to send the V1 into a dive:
So our initial scepticism has been greatly tempered. The new location seems far more likely to be correct than the commonly held one. The sixth comment on this post also contains seemingly confirmatory information from the Imperial War Museum including these pics. Thanks Dave.
It'll be interesting if others modify their opinions and websites to suit. More interesting still will be who they credit-Mick tells me that Alan Clark for one is simply following us around the sites we have visited in Wales nowadays without crediting us, judging by the updates to his site.
New Location: SK 18224 97083
Went up to a place called World's End above Minera (near Wrexham)on Monday in a fair bit of snow looking for some of the wrecks up there. Four are given in High Ground Wrecks: Beaufighter NE203, Spitfire TE210, Fulmar N4074, and Master N7442.
As with last week in Yorkshire, we found nothing anywhere near the HGW coordinates for the ones we got to.
A great day out though, and we had the added excitement of very nearly losing the Landy over a steep bank. Excitement is not quite the right word though, we were a few inches from a 30m drop sideways.
The road is basically impassable in any amount of snow, as even locals were finding out the hard way. Quite a few people went past points of no return, and we had to take a couple of carfuls back down to safety as dark closed in. I should imagine this has been world's end for a few drivers over the years, as well as all those pilots.
This is one of the oxygen tanks from the rear of the cockpit. Their original location can be seen in the P-47's flight manual at the link below.
If you click through and zoom in, the following text can be clearly read," TYPE D-2 INTERNAL VOLUME 500 CUBIC INCHES AVAILABLE OXYGEN FROM ...50 POUNDS PER SQ..PRESSURE=6.9 CUBIC.."
The full text would originally have said "F.S.P. CO., BREATHING OXYGEN, NONSHATTERABLE TYPE D-2 INTERNAL VOLUME 500 CUBIC INCHES, AVAILABLE OXYGEN FROM 400 TO 50 POUNDS PER SQUARE INCH PRESSURE=6.9 CUBIC FEET" if you are interested.
Location: SH 88510 14378
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The largest pile of bits, (probably collected in this gully by the recovery team) is maybe 20 metres into the woods behind the engine.
Location: SH 88470 14434
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Memorial to the five human crew killed in the 1942 crash of this American heavy bomber, and their dog "Booster", who was interred at the site.
The site is a full 82 m from the six decimal place coordinates given on the "GPS Walker" site. Perhaps that is why Alan Clark is happy to carry a link to that inaccurate and ill-maintained site and not to ours. No-one is going to find much from "GPS Walker"'s coordinates.
Since the site's title implies that GPS is being used for navigation and production of coordinates, we have no idea how the coordinates published on the website can be so far out.
We have had no success in contacting "GPS Walker", but if you are out there, your comments are invited. We link below our +/-3m accurate coordinates to the relevant page of "GPS Walker"'s site.
Location: SH 71564 74345
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Scraps from the crash site of this Hurricane in the Wyre Forest.
Location SO 7472 77904
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We think the molten aluminium mixed in with these more recognisable components show this to be the burn-out site of this disputed wreck site on Elidir Fawr.
There is a cairn immediately adjacent to this scatter of bits, perhaps indicating that someone else thought the same.
We are calling it as the Skua rather than a Beaufighter, based on what is there to be seen now. It might even be more of the Blenheim. That would be a long wreckage trail, mind.
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The lowest sizeable bit we found near the HGW coordinates for the Skua. Looks to be a bit of undercarriage and associated oleo strut.
There is some evidence that this might be a bit of the Blenheim, despite being much closer to High Ground Wrecks' Skua site.
A correspondent tells us that the undercarriage is from a Blenheim. (I would say suggests, but the correspondent is not a person who suggests, but rather expects to be beleived on the basis of his own unrealistic self-appraisal) This is easily possible, though the photos offered as evidence are far from conclusive.
No-one is presently offering any convincing evidence to dispute that any of the other suspected Skua parts are from a Blenheim. No-one other than this correspondent, and his mate have offered any opinion, despite the photos having been posted on the Aero Part Identity Board since 28/10/2008.
Location: SH 60900 61740
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A pit containing large pieces of aluminium skinning from Halifax DG404 on Brown Hill Plain (some give it as Heathfield Moor or even Ashfold Side Beck) on the moors above Pateley Bridge
Location: SE 09570 67520
One of the two groups of good-sized wreckage at this Halifax crash site
Location: SE 09592 67502
A day out with Matt ZX yesterday on foggy Arenig Fawr looking at the crash site of a Flying Fortress. We found far more wreckage than expected, trailling 300m down the slope in a suspiciously straight line which Matt thought might be the path taken by the recovery team.
Theres' not really much on the 'net about this site, but the link below gives a precis of the circumstances of the crash, and a pic of the crew..
Location: SH 82430 37069 to SH 82649 36942
A collection of fair-sized bits further down the hill. Our Flickr site shows lots of other bits we found all the way up to the crash site and memorial. Too many and too small to blog them all.
Location: SH 82565 37052
This scar in Bwylch Maen Gwynedd was close to the coordinates given in "High Ground Wrecks", for three 'planes (Boeing Flying Fortress B-17E 41-9098, Westland Lysander Mk.III T1655, and Supermarine Spitfire Mk.IIA P7295), and looked pretty convincing from a distance.
Close up however, not a trace of metal. It's hard to crash a 16 tonne 'plane into the ground and not leave a scrap of aluminium.
We know this isn't it, but we think this might be what HGW have marked as the Fortress crash site.
Location:SJ 07733 34027
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After the Wellington Memorial we started the day's job of revisiting sites where we had received enough additional information since our last visit to be fairly confident of clearing them.
This is a view down the gully where the Cessna crashed on Broadlee Bank Tor, above Edale.
Whilst we are happy we have found the site ( a fair bit up the gully from the photo location) by photo-matching, metal detection showed there to be not a scrap of tin left at the site.
We don't want our site to degenerate to the state of some others on the 'net where we take a picture from half a mile away of a field and claim to have identified the site, but this pic will help you find the site if you are looking, and we really cannot find any physical evidence at this site.
This was the last remaining site on Kinder which we considered to have a good chance of definitively locating without in-depth research.
Location:SK 11375 86122
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Our second visit to the Waterhouses crash site of this Oxford yielded this scrap of debris.
Access to the site was facilitated by the river being unexpectedly completely dry.
Pat Cunningham's information is a bit poor at this site, probably for the main reason we had such difficulty locating it: the trees on the steep bank block the GPS signal pretty effectively.
His given coordinates are for example 50m below his given elevation data, and on the wrong side of the river.
Our location info at this site is at least on the right side of the river, but it will not be as accurate as usual, maybe +/- 50 ft.
Location:SK 09323 50138
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