Avro Lancaster Mk. I W4326 'C' Charlie

Dolwen Lancaster
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

We went out yesterday for a look at the Dolwen Lancaster. We knew it had been "recovered" a few years back, so were unprepared for how much skinning and other components might have been left behind by wreckologists clearly interested only in engines.

There is a lot. We'd still class this site as at least a "medium" on the High Ground Wrecks gradings. The HGW coords are pretty good too.

We understand the soft ground meant that the engines were exceptionally well-preserved. We believe one of them to be in the Caernarvon Airworld "museum". Where the others are we do not know.

We understand the guy previously mentioned on here who makes the little model 'planes from melted down wreckage has also visited this site.

This is Matt ZX with the crater and wreckage piles in the background

Avro Lancaster Mk. I W4326 'C' Charlie

Dolwen Lancaster
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

The larger of the two wreckage piles

Avro Lancaster Mk. I W4326 'C' Charlie

Dolwen Lancaster
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

Serial numbers and inspection stamps on the discarded wreckage. Click on and zoom in to see clearly.

Avro Lancaster Mk. I W4326 'C' Charlie

Dolwen Lancaster
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

The smaller of the two wreckage piles with its home-made memorial stone.

Someone seems to have claimed the site for Wales, despite the crew being from Canada and New Zealand in the main, and the aircraft having flown from 101 Group in Yorkshire.

Location: SH 95433 09203

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Republic P-47D Thunderbolt 42-75101

Engine: Thunderbolt 42-75101
Originally uploaded by wreckhunter

After a number of trips without a decent find we thought we'd go to a site known to have good sized wreckage. We chose the crash site of Thunderbolt 42-75101 on Mynydd Copog, just outside the Snowdonia National Park, and therefore seemingly safe from the scrap merchants.

Matt ZX was supposed to come with, but had to go elsewhere at short notice. Our thanks to him for assistance with planning.

What a change from last week's conditions. It was clear and bright, frosty but not freezing cold. It was a breeze to get up to the wood (planted after the crash) on top of the hill. That the plantation was of Christmas trees was pleasantly seasonal.

Finding the wreckage pile and engine on the boundary of the wood was a doddle. Behind this in the wood is a bigger pile of wreckage still, not shown elsewhere on the 'net.

We explored the wood for a couple of hours, finding all sorts of fair sized scraps everywhere to the East of the edge site illustrated. The only thing of high interest (for us at least) we found was an oxygen bottle in good nick.

Due to the heavy tree cover, some of this week's coordinates are expected to be of lower than usual accuracy.

Republic P-47D Thunderbolt 42-75101

Oxygen Tank: Thunderbolt 42-75101
Originally uploaded by wreckhunter

This is one of the oxygen tanks from the rear of the cockpit. Their original location can be seen in the P-47's flight manual at the link below.

If you click through and zoom in, the following text can be clearly read," TYPE D-2 INTERNAL VOLUME 500 CUBIC INCHES AVAILABLE OXYGEN FROM ...50 POUNDS PER SQ..PRESSURE=6.9 CUBIC.."

The full text would originally have said "F.S.P. CO., BREATHING OXYGEN, NONSHATTERABLE TYPE D-2 INTERNAL VOLUME 500 CUBIC INCHES, AVAILABLE OXYGEN FROM 400 TO 50 POUNDS PER SQUARE INCH PRESSURE=6.9 CUBIC FEET" if you are interested.

Location: SH 88510 14378

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Republic P-47D Thunderbolt 42-75101

Pile: Thunderbolt 42-75101
Originally uploaded by wreckhunter

The largest pile of bits, (probably collected in this gully by the recovery team) is maybe 20 metres into the woods behind the engine.

Location: SH 88470 14434

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Republic P-47D Thunderbolt 42-75101

Pile: Thunderbolt 42-75101
Originally uploaded by wreckhunter

Detail from the pile of skinning and components nearerest to the edge of the wood

Location: SH 88453 14438

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Republic P-47D Thunderbolt 42-75101

Engine: Thunderbolt 42-75101
Originally uploaded by wreckhunter

Season's Greetings from Mick and Seán.

Blenheim V6099: Elidirs-continued....

Skua/Beaufighter: Elidir Fawr
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig2

The continuing saga of Elidir Fawr: are there actually four planes on the mountain, but we have the wrong four? RJMP, a sixties/seventies wreckhunter reports as follows:

"We thought at the time that the wreck on the NW side of Elidir Fawr was a Beaufighter, because that is what the RAF Valley lists said, but I accept that it is probably a Blenheim. They were very similar of course.

I knew all of the Blenheim's wreckage long before ‘aviation archeologists' and others started moving it all around (And of course, when it was only 25 years old, not 65 years old!!). I recovered various live .303 rounds I remember. All the wreckage on this side of the mountain is from one wreck. The wreckage extends from the point of impact, where the burned wreckage is to be found, right down into Marchlyn Bach. There were no engines in those days (mid 60s to early 70s), so they were either well buried or more likely recovered.

The Skua is indeed on the other side of the mountain.

Interestingly, I once found a single small piece of wreckage at around SH613618, away from the Blenheim wreckage trail. At the time I considered it to be what I called an ‘erratic’ (glaciologists will know what I mean) – a piece of the Blenheim that had been carried here and then discarded.

A few years later, when construction of the Marchlyn Mawr dam was commenced, they actually drained the lake in order to build the dam footings and presumably to dig the tunnel down to the turbines in the Dinorwic quarry. When they drained the lake they found a German aircraft in the bottom of the lake, complete with crew remains! There was a report in the local newspaper about it, which I didn't see, but my father did. I have wondered since whether the small piece of wreckage I found came from this wreck. I have never seen any other reference to the aircraft in the lake. "

I have written to the council to see if they know anything about the German 'plane. I'll see if I can track down the local paper report.

So it seems to be Tomahawk on the summit, Blenheim on the west side, Skua on the east, and a German plane in the lake. No Beaufighter. We'll be back in summer to see if we can find the evidence to back up the reports. In the meantime, research continues.

Armstrong Vickers Wellington Mk.IC Z8808

Gouthwaite Moor: Wellington Z8808
Originally uploaded by wreckhunter

Another day out above Pateley Bridge, but no electric blue skies this time. Snow, sleet, wind and rough underfoot, it was hard going.

Our main objective, the extensive Wellington wreckage on Gouthwaite Moor proved elusive once again, though you could have hidden much under the showdrifts.

We did however find this digger. We are resisting the urge to comment further about diggers.

We offer as a consolation details of a couple of local sites which have not yet been found by anyone.

Handley Page Halifax LL576

Gouthwaite Farm: Halifax LL576
Originally uploaded by wreckhunter

Up over the hill, past that farm somewhere lie the remains of a Canadian crewed Halifax bomber. No-one has yet found the wreck site.

Location: SE 130 686

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BAC Jet Provost T.3a XN598

Gouthwaite Reservoir: Jet Provost T.3a XN598
Originally uploaded by wreckhunter

A jet trainer aircraft crashed into Gouthwaite reservoir in the area shown in this photograph in June 1978 killing its instructor pilot.

Location: SE 131 694

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Blenheim V6099: Elidirs

Blenheim: Elidirs
Originally uploaded by wreckhunter

We didn't manage to get out again this week, but "Rob the Tog" did, and he reports as follows on the Elidir Fawr sites mixup issue:

"I've just managed my first trip in quite a long time. It was up the Blenheim/Skua sites on Elidir Fawr. I just though I'd run my thoughts past you to see what you think.

Firstly, I've got to agree with you the mystery Beaufighter doesn't exist, just a simple mix up in identification on the 'scrap dealers' list.

If that is the case, then I think all three areas of wreckage on this side of the hill are from Blenheim V6099, I'll explain why.

If you are discounting the Beaufighter then the undercarriage and oleo comes from the Blenheim as the as the Skua has a totally different u/c set up.That must make the high site with the small cairn and burnt area the actual crash site of the Beaufighter and the u/c is on the direct fall line from this site.

In all the sites I've been to, even with people moving things, the heavy items always end up down the slope. This only becomes important to rule out the pile of aluminium skin as a crash site.

I know this pile matches the 'High Ground Wrecks & Relics' co-ords. But something doesn't feel right, as there is no evidence of anything else, no burning, no little scraps etc, at that site.

My theory is that these pieces of skin have blown down the face then someone has collected them and cached them there for what ever reason (probably quite a long time ago). Then 'High Ground Wrecks' has mistakenly called this the crash site.

This has then cased a second mistake in 'High Ground Wrecks'. With the Beaufighter crash supposedly accounted for, they have called the high site the Skua crash. So making one crash into two, I know it might sound a bit far fetched but, 'High Ground Wrek' is riddled with mistakes when you start going though it in detail.

I know what you're thinking, 'in that case where is the Skua?'. The short answer is on the other side of the mountain. I haven't got any grid refs, but I found threes small pieces of info that back my hunch up.

Firstly, page 91, 'No landing place' ... Skua, "Flew into the east face of Elidir Fawr.

Secondly, comment 8 on the scrap dealers list (I don't know who they are but they do seem to know what they are talking about) ... "No 28, marks the summit of the mountain (I've checked it does) half-way between the Blenheim and Skua". That says to me, if it's half way between and the Blenheim is on one side then the Skua is on the other.

Thirdly (and by far the most tenuous). If you google L3054, about the fourth hit down is a .pdf called 'A cultural guide to a low level route ......' but the point is the bit mentioning the crash also mentions the aircraft flying into the east face.

So that's it, in short to try to clear things up we need to have a look see if there is crash in the east face of Elidir Fawr."

Seems a convincing argument for further investigation to us, though it'll be best done without snow on the ground judging from his pic.

We'll also visit the summit sometime to look for the Cessna and any evidence of the other crashes. Unless someone else wants to report on the foot of the east face, and the summit for us?

Hopefully we won't turn into another couple of armchair wreckhunters. Or worse yet, self-important no-life anoraks, like certain of our more unbalanced correspondents.