Blackburn Botha Mk.I L6202 coded 6-20

Blackburn Botha L6202: Llwytmor
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

The highest, and most commonly found engine from this Botha, which crashed on Llwytmor on the 28th August 1943 while on a training flight from Hooton Park near Ellesmere Port.

There is plenty more wreckage all over the hillside in the vicinity of this engine, which is located very close to the aircraft's impact site.

Location: SH 68378 69129

Blackburn Botha Mk.I L6202 coded 6-20

Blackburn Botha L6202: Llwytmor
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

The elusive second engine from the Botha below the waterfall on Afon Goch.

This is 570m from the other, more commonly photographed one stuck in the crack in the rocks, and is the only picture of this lower engine on the 'net. Others say they have seen it, but as so often the case in the world of "wreckology", they offer no proof.

Location: SH 67810 69131

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Elidir Fawr and Elidir Fach

Elidir Fawr
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig2

A Wales trip yesterday, we set out with no great hopes of finding any of the three known, and one disputed wreck sites on Elidir Fawr and Elidir Fach. Elidir Fawr has a power station hidden inside it, and is therefore also known as Electric Mountain.

On top of "Electric Mountain", in that cloud somewhere, might well be some remains from the crash of Piper Tomahawk G-BOCC, but we weren't up for the final ascent on the day. The Tomahawk's pilot spent several hours conscious and badly injured hanging over a long, steep drop before he was rescued. Not his best day ever, I shouldn't imagine.

The crash site is allegedly very close to the remains of a Beaufighter according to the Snowdonia scrap dealer's list. They don't call themselves scrap dealers, they think they are aviation archaeologists. However, since most of the stuff they "recovered" quasi-legally from the mountains of Wales ended up weighed in for scrap, it seems the fairest description. Archaeologists do not deal in scrap metal.

We did find wreckage where these Diddycoys said they found Hercules engines from a Beaufighter. We understand however that majority opinion would be that this wreckage is from a Skua which crashed there, or even from the Blenheim crash site (600m away, according to "High Ground Wrecks"). Skuas did not have Bristol Hercules engines. They did however have Bristol Perseus engines. These have 9 cylinders, vs 14 for the Hercules. Could it be that they just couldn't count that high? Of course, if the grave-robbers hadn't weighed the identifiable bits of the the 'plane in, we'd be in a better position to comment on what they saw!

We also found some bits on the slopes of Elidir Fach which were unarguably from Blenheim V6099. It doesn't appear on the previously mentioned list, but it's definitely on the hill.

So we found a fair bit more than expected, and were back down in time for a spot of fish and chips. All good.

Since we posted this we have had some correspondence which suggests that we should not criticise people we have not met.

OK, we take it all back. That guy Hitler was probably just misunderstood too. What do we know, we never met him.

Blackburn B-24 Skua Mk.II L3054 or Bristol Blenheim Mk.IV V6099?

Skua/Beaufighter: Elidir Fawr
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig2

We think the molten aluminium mixed in with these more recognisable components show this to be the burn-out site of this disputed wreck site on Elidir Fawr.

There is a cairn immediately adjacent to this scatter of bits, perhaps indicating that someone else thought the same.

We are calling it as the Skua rather than a Beaufighter, based on what is there to be seen now. It might even be more of the Blenheim. That would be a long wreckage trail, mind.

Location:SH 60976 61526

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Blackburn B-24 Skua Mk.II L3054 or Bristol Blenheim Mk.IV V6099?

Skua/Beaufighter: Elidir Fawr
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig2

A cluster of fair sized bits of steel below the burn site, with my walking pole for scale.

Location: SH 60960 61570

Blackburn Botha Mk.I L6202 coded 6-20

Botha: Llwytmor
Originally uploaded by wreckhunter

A group of wreckage from the Llwytmor crash site of this Botha.

Location: SH 68135 69279

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Bleaklow: Defiant and Botha

Training outing yesterday, twelve and a half miles off-path over Bleaklow's groughs and cloughs took us almost exactly twelve hours. We went to visit a couple of sites more or less on the top of Bleaklow, which we had visited last year.

The sites are those of a Defiant and Botha, two planes united by being frankly a bit rubbish, both models ending up being used as target tugs.

The Defiant was like a Spitfire with a rear firing gun-turret. This tricked a few German pilots at first, but once they knew it had no forward firing guns, it came to seem to the unfortunate aircrew like a much less clever idea.

The Botha was very underpowered and unstable, and consequently crashed a lot. The military therefore withdrew it from active service. They then seemingly thought that these characteristics would make it an ideal training aircraft, which obviously did nothing good for its continuing safety record.

We had resolved previously to revisit the Defiant as High Peak Bob records a further wreckage pile downhill from the commonly visited major one. We actually found quite a number of collections, within a widespread scatter of small bits.

We saw nothing to prove or disprove the sometimes advanced theory that this 'plane was subject to "friendly fire": the fabled radiator with 0.303 bullet holes was not in evidence. There are in any case many things on these moors with such bullet holes in, as they were used for military training for many years. We'd have been none the wiser if we had seen it.

We revisited the Botha because it was close by, and also because visiting both sites allowed us to better investigate the hypothesis frequently put to us that publishing wreck coordinates encourages looting.

We are pleased to say that both sites seem untouched since our last visit. Whilst far from conclusive, this supports our view that publishing coordinates facilitates a harmless navigation exercise for walkers.

Blackburn Botha W5103

Botha
Originally uploaded by wreckhunter

The Botha wreckage was just where we left it in May last year, and looked just the same too. Our co-ords are also good.

Location:SK 11077 97532