Showing posts with label sabre. Show all posts
Showing posts with label sabre. Show all posts

Monday, 7 January 2019

North American Sabre Mk.2 19234



















Not been here since 2007. Someone has been collecting everything into one pile, and added one of the new metal crosses we are seeing at almost all of the sites now. Ian DB thinks there is less wreckage than before, and notes that the red ring around the fuel point has been lifted (by some light-fingered anorak - my comment)

Location: SE 09101 05072

Thursday, 16 August 2018

North American F. Mk.4 Sabres (or are they Canadair CL-13s?) XD707 and XD730 :

















Pat Cunningham (in the pic) offers the following information about the crash of two Sabres from No.66 Squadron, RAF Linton-on-Ouse, No. 12 Group, Fighter Command onto Kinder Scout and Black Ashop Moor on 22 July 1954 in which the formating pilots (Flying Officer James D. Horne, section leader (XD707) and Flight Lieutenant Alan Green, formating pilot (XD730)) were both killed.
When Russian-built swept-wing MiG-15 jet fighters were encountered in Korea in 1950, British manufacturers had nothing to match them. British transonic swept-wing fighters were under development to replace the straight-winged subsonic Meteors and Vampires, but until the Hunter arrived in 1955, Canadian-built Sabres filled the void. Held to be pleasant to fly, most of the Sabres were based in Germany, but No.66 Squadron was among those units equipped with them in Britain.

So it was that on 22 July 1954, four of the No.66 Squadron Sabres were recovering to Linton-on-Ouse, near York, after a high-level interception sortie flown in the course of a major annual-evaluation war-game. For the descent, the formation leader had split his section into pairs, each pair entering cloud independently at 12,000 feet.

Some time later, as his pair passed 5,000 feet, still in cloud, the overall leader transmitted an advisory warning to Flying Officer James Horne, now leading the second pair, against descending below 3,000 feet on their present heading: the more realistic safety height of the future was to be 3,800 feet. The foursome had noted already that Flying Officer Horne’s radio was weak at times, so he may not have heard the warning; certainly, he did not acknowledge.

Indeed nothing more was heard of him, or of his number two, until three days later when a walker came upon a body on The Edge, high above Black Ashop Moor. Until this discovery bad weather had hampered the search, although the keeper of the Kinder Reservoir had reported being alarmed by two jet fighters roaring at very low level towards cloud-covered Kinder. Despite his concern, however, he had heard no subsequent impact.

These aircraft had undoubtedly been the two Sabres, although what made Flying Officer Horne take his number two that low will never be known. A likely scenario, however, is that he saw a clearance below him, and dropped into what turned out to be a ‘sucker’s gap’ – a beckoning clearance which then closed in around him. Certainly, in his evidently hasty pull for a safe height, he managed to clear the edge of Kinder, but equally evidently something untoward happened after he had done so, for both aircraft struck the ground in a single impact point not many yards into the plateau.

To conjecture further, although Flight Lieutenant Alan Green, the number two, was more experienced than his leader, he was still settling in having been posted from another squadron. It could be then, that, caught out by the hastily initiated transition from level flight to very steep climb, he had – understandably – twitched just that little bit, causing his wingtip to lock with his leader’s tail. Or what is equally likely, bearing in mind that both aircraft were in very steep climbing attitudes, is that, in reaction to his leader’s over-hasty pull, Flight Lieutenant Green had pulled even harder, got high, and being momentarily unsighted from his leader, had collided in blindly pushing back into position.

The court of inquiry, however, did not treat with such speculation, finding only that Flying Officer Horne, as section leader, had failed to observe the area safety height – which he should have been familiar with regardless of any missed transmission – although it found some little mitigation in his faulty radio. It specifically noted that no blame was to be attached to Flight Lieutenant Green, whose sole responsibility had been to formate upon his leader.

Locations

SK 06926 89664 Kinder: initial impact point, start of debris trail (illustrated above)
SK 07268 90236 Black Ashop Moor: wings, gear, with an engine in an adjacent grough
SK 07300 90100 Black Ashop Moor, two debris pools
SK 07548 90390 Black Ashop Moor, the second engine

I note that there is a lot less here then in my last pic. Theft and vandalism by sad anoraks as usual.

The North American F-86 Sabre and its Canadair version, the CL 13

Pat Cunningham has offered a bit of a blurb about the Sabre, and its Canadair development the CL-13:

In the early 1950s the British-designed replacements for the by-then outclassed Meteor and Vampire fighters were suffering many developmental problems, so the appearance early in the Korean War (1950-53) of the Soviet MiGs quite discomfited the Royal Air Force planners. Accordingly, in fulfilment of a mutual defence agreement, Canada made over to the RAF 431 Sabre jets.

Fortuitously, the RAF was not a total stranger to the swept-wing type, a few of its pilots having flown with the Americans in Korea, in the process shooting down a number of MiG-15 jets. The first of the F-86 Sabre series flew in late 1947, but the version the RAF received was a 1950s development with, significantly, in terms of performance, an all-flying tail. Powered by an Allison J47-GE-13 engine developing 5,200 pounds of static thrust, it had a maximum speed of 679 mph (590 knots) at sea level, an initial climb rate of 7,250 feet a minute, and a laden weight of 17,806 pounds.

Most pilots found the Sabre a delight to fly and many expressed disappointment when it was replaced by the Supermarine Swift and by the early marks of the Hawker Hunter. Just the same, by mid-1956 Hunters had completely replaced the RAF’s Sabres, both in Germany and in the UK.

Tuesday, 7 August 2018

North American F-86 Sabre F.Mk 4s XD707 + XD730: Kinder Scout Crash Site Vandalism

Jet Engine at Sabre Crash Site on Kinder Scout














I've had time to a bit of wreck hunting again. For anyone who doesn't know, this blog is the site that published accurate coordinates for the crash sites on Kinder Scout, amongst other places. We are going to be doing this again, now that I have rebooted the site.

We went to the Sabre wreck sites on Kinder Scout yesterday. The more exposed of the two jet engines has acquired a number of saw cuts since I last photographed it.

It looks like people wanted to take some bits home. All illegal of course. People died at this site.

Location:

SK 07348 90256

Saturday, 24 July 2010

North American F-86 Sabre F.Mk 4s XD707 + XD730

Cockpit:North American F-86 Sabre F.Mk 4s XD707 + XD730
The cockpit from one of the Kinder Sabres is in someone's house, along with a great deal of stuff from other crash sites, and assorted ordnance....

Thursday, 24 January 2008

North American Sabre F-86 F.Mk 4s XD707 + XD730

North American Sabre F-86 F.Mk 4s XD707 + XD730
Ashop Clough: Sabres
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig2

The elusive second jet engine, finally located, half a mile from the impact point on top of Kinder. Amazing that it was thrown so far. Turns out this was the very first thing we found on our first visit, we just didn't know what we were looking at at the time...

Location:SK 07546 90391

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Thursday, 29 November 2007

North American F-86 Sabre F.Mk 4s XD707 + XD730


Sabres: Kinder
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

This jet engine on Ashop Moor has been dropped onto its side by someone since our last visit. Or maybe it's the elusive second engine? We are investigating. See 24th Jan 2008 post for results of the investigation.

Location: SK 07348 90256

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North American F-86 Sabre F.Mk 4s XD707 + XD730


Sabres: Kinder
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

A detail from a collection on Ashop Moor with many electrical components at SK 07327 90072

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North American F-86 Sabre F.Mk 4s XD707 + XD730


Sabres: Kinder
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

Other than scraps, this was the only collection of fragments we found on the descent to Ashop Moor.

Location: SK 07015 89912

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North American F-86 Sabre F.Mk 4s XD707 + XD730


Sabres: Kinder
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

The start of the wreckage trail at SK 06920 89649

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North American F-86 Sabre F.Mk 4s XD707 + XD730


Sabres: Kinder
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

The vicinity of the impact site at : SK 06925 89678

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North American F-86 Sabre F.Mk 4s XD707 + XD730


Sabres: Kinder
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

RAF Roundel on this wing fragment from a collection at SK 06977 89721

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North American F-86 Sabre F.Mk 4s XD707 + XD730


Sabres: Kinder
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

Third collection on top at : SK 06955 89698

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North American F-86 Sabre F.Mk 4s XD707 + XD730


Sabres: Kinder
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

Still on top of Kinder Scout, this was at SK 06959 89767

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North American F-86 Sabre F.Mk 4s XD707 + XD730


Sabres: Kinder
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

We went up on top of Kinder Scout, and then down onto Ashop Moor today to find the impact site and other bits from this mid-air collision of two Sabre jet fighters which we missed on our previous visit.

This collection of bits was the first we found on Kinder Scout at: SK 07012 89795

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Thursday, 19 July 2007

North American Sabre Mk.2 19234


Sabre Wreck:Holme Moss
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

With Mick away in Australia, I'm reduced to experimenting with blogging direct from my Flickr site(though me and Barry will be out next Thursday). When we found the Swordfish, we also popped over to get some better pics of the nearby Sabre wreck. There are more on my Flickr Site. If you click through on the above pic, it's much more high-res than the other pics on here, and shows the complete wreckage

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Thursday, 7 June 2007

North American F86 Sabre Mk.2 19234,Consolidated B-24H Liberator 42-94841

Successful outing on Holme Moss with Ralph (the dog) today. Located the RCAF Sabre and USAAF Liberator, but missed the Swordfish again. We'll get it next time!

Liberator wreck was at:

Consolidated B-24H Liberator 42-94841

SE 10632 03385











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Sabre at:

North American F86 Sabre Mk.2 19234

SE 09101 05072
















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More pics from our wreckhunting outings are posted here.

Sunday, 8 April 2007