Avro Anson Mk.XI NL185

Still two engines and lots of skinning at this crash site, which seems just as last time other than the homemade cross being absent.

Mat found some interesting bits, which you can see on his blog. I've put his pic of the most complete engine up, without the sepia filter Mick used last time.

Location: SK 08874 86578

Avro Lancaster Mk X KB701

I was lucky to find even this one of the few remaining scattered bits of wreckage at the Helmsley Moor crash site of this Lancaster Bomber.

Location: SE 58808 92116

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Avro Anson Mk.XI NL185

 

A nip out onto Kinder with Pat today, to look at a number of sites. We found that the engine from this Anson has been moved a fair distance, and fallen into a hole. It looks from stream-bed damage like it has been rolled to this new position to me, but it isn't definitive. Unless someone wants to own up? 

Location: SK 08869 86573

Avro Lancaster Mk. III NE132

This appropriately sombre picture shows the memorial to the crew of Lancaster NE132 at the site of their fatal 6th February 1945 crash.

It lies in the middle of an extensive (but nevertheless hard to find) wreckage trail down the flank of Rhinog Fawr in South Snowdonia, Wales.

It's pretty accessible by high ground wreck site standards, though the 50mph winds and driving rain reduced accessibility a bit for us last Saturday. Without assistance from Matt ZX, we'd undoubtedly have blanked here as we did on our last attempt. The site is a very long way from the High Ground Wrecks coordinates.

This is the only crash site listed as a War Grave in Wales, but this didn't stop someone taking away the only two engines on the site which were not completely shattered around ten years ago.

As we know, wreckologists aren't squeamish about graverobbing, but for whatever reason, the shattered remains of much of the 'plane and two of of the crew are still there on the hillside, rather than gracing some sad anorak's shed.

With the new rules from CADW, they will hopefully now remain undisturbed for years to come.

Location: SH 63736 28879

Avro Anson Mk. 1 L9149

Second 'plane of the day. More or less all that remains of this Anson which became disorientated and crashed in thick cloud and rain on Fan Brycheiniog in January 1939 are these globs of formerly molten aluminium and rusty scraps of steel.

There is a memorial to this crash and the associated rescue operation at the church in Glyntawe, at the foot of these hills, as previously featured on our site

Location: SN 82499 21249

Avro Anson Mk. I EG472

Avro Anson EG472
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

We approached Moel Hebog from a new direction yesterday, resulting in our locating the undercarriage, wheels, fuel tank and other less recognisable wreckage left by the crash of Anson EG472 into the mountain, (and of course the subsequent raiding by local "aviation archaeologists" for their mickey mouse "museum").

It wasn't as easy as we expected, as chest-high bracken which didn't show on the map impeded our progress up the steepest part of the hill.

The picture shows a detail from the undercarriage winding gear of Avro Anson EG472 of 9 OAFU Llandwrog which crashed on the 13th of June 1944 into Moel Hebog (above Beddgelert in Snowdonia).

The 'plane reportedly flew into the North face of the mountain in low cloud and bad visibility on a night navigation exercise.

Turbulence was experienced at 6,000 ft and the Bombardier asked the pilot if he could descend to a calmer altitude.

The Navigator stated they were over Hawarden so the descent was made and the aircraft struck the mountain. One Sgt. Howard was thrown clear and survived, but the other four crew were all killed in the crash.

We don't normally bother with crash report details on here, but there's nothing on the internet about the circumstances of this crash at present.

Location: SH 56890 46948

Avro Lancaster W4929 Coded AJ-J

Lancaster
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

Six straight hours of being rained on whilst tramping through a bog yielded only one find yesterday, the crash site and this memorial to the crew of a bomber downed (for reasons still unknown) north of Fan Foel in the Brecon Beacons.

We failed to find anything at the Moel Feity Liberator site reasonably nearby, but visibility was poor, and other excuses.

The poppy wreath is from the inmates of Swansea Prison. Anyone know why?

Location: SN 82792 23892

Avro Lancaster W4929 Coded AJ-J

AVRO LANCASTER W4929 CODED AJ-J
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

The bent crankshafts from two Merlin engines in the foreground and just behind Mick are some of the largest bits in this 4m by 20m scar left in the hillside by the impact of a Lancaster bomber.

Location: SN 82793 23892

We have received the following information about this site from the aircrew remembrance society:

Lancaster W4929 H.C.U. crashed on the 5th September 1943 with the loss of all the crew:

Took off from Winthorpe for a night cross country training flight. They flew into a heavy storm over the Brecon Beacons and crashed at 23.20hrs.

Two of the commonwealth crew are buried in Hereford Cemetery (F/O Folkersen R.C.A.F. Fl/Sgt. Buckby R.A.A.F.), Sgt Curran was interred in Bath Cemetery. P/O Duxbury and Sgt Holding are buried in Standish, Wigan. Sgt Wilson is buried in Clitheroe Cemetery, Sgt Pratt at Hemel Hempstead, P/O Johnson D.F.M. was cremated at Woking Crematorium.

Anson Mk. 1 L9149 Memorial; Glyntawe, Brecon Beacons

Anson Memorial
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

In the churchyard in Glyntawe, this memorial was erected to commemorate the 1939 crash of Anson L9149, and to thank those who took part in the rescue operation.

Though the military personnel on board perished, two civilian passengers survived. We'll give more info on this crash when we have visited the site.

We just visited this because it was close to where we parked, before setting out for a 10 mile circular walk on Black Mountain, to pick up a couple of Wellington wreck sites, and practice navigation in unfamiliar surroundings.

We liked the Brecon Beacons and we'll be back, but it's a long drive from Derbyshire, it made for an eighteen hour day. We won't be doing it every week!

Location: SN 84956 16920

Avro Anson T21 VV995

Anson VV995
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

Finally found the undercarriage from this Anson navigation trainer on Foel Lwyd at the third try.

This was our backup walk after our attempt on Moel Hebog's Anson EG472 had to be abandoned, as we had chosen a route which was unsuited to the weather.

Ended up doing it in the dark, but with good coords from Rob the Tog, an easy find in the end. It's always a lot easier when you are looking in the right place. The High Ground Wrecks coordinates are over 200m out at this site, and on this terrain, that's a long way.

Location: SH 72366 72056

Avro Lancaster Mk. I W4326 'C' Charlie

An update on what happened with respect to the Dolwen Lancaster is in order, as the information we have received since our original posting has proved so interesting. We know that the "Aviation Archaeologists" who we usually refer to as scrap merchants were ungifted amateurs, but this is the saddest story yet!

We hear that one of the scrap merchants (who we might refer to as Rhys) applied for a licence to dig this site (where seven men died) in the late 1980s.

Now, applying for a licence to dig is not the big deal that wreckologists make out, and even at death sites like this one, they don't seem to check that you are even who you say you are, or care too much whether you have any relevant qualifications, or ask what you intend to do with the "recovered " items to any degree of rigour.

They don't even seem to care much if you have previous convictions for grave robbing. Grave robbing is an important concept here. It is the basis of the legislation which is supposed to protect these sites.

When records show that a body was recovered, that only means that 7lb (3kg) of remains were found. The rest is quite possibly still in the ground. All sites where deaths occurred are grave sites, though naturally the grave robbers dispute this.

Still, someone couldn't wait: we are told that one of the other scrap merchants (let's call him Bethesda Dave) heard of this and decided to beat him to it, excavating the site without a licence, and taking away two of the engines, and a few other saleable bits.

There is a picture of the dig in process in Edward Doylerush's "No Landing Place". Obviously "Rhys" wasn't pleased by his mate nicking what he considered to be his scrap, and this caused something of a rift back at the scrapyard.

One of the engines was broken up and sold in pieces. Some of these bits have since appeared on eBay.

The other engine is apparently in the Caernarfon Airworld"Museum", unlabelled as to its origin, and with various bits replaced with bits obtained elsewhere. They do not own it, it is merely on loan from the person who illegally recovered it.

Bits which couldn't be sold were left in situ, crowned with the added insult of a Welsh flag marking the graves of the entirely non-Welsh crew, signifying perhaps the feeling of ownership diggers have for wreck sites, and belying their so often made false claims of honouring the war dead.

Whether the man who makes little model aircraft from melted down plane wreckage bought scraps of illegally dug wreckage on eBay or simply collected it himself, we do not know. We do however know that he is advertising models made from the fabric of this aircraft.

Short of digging up one of the crew's skulls and taking a dump in it, we can't see how much more immorally and illegally these people might have acted. Yet nothing seems to be happening to them.

Can we call these people "Archaeologists", as diggers like to style themselves?

What sort of archaeologist cares about nothing other than the showiest items, and leaves everything else behind in piles?

What sort of archaeologist claims the site for his country, irrespective of the origin of the human remains to be found there?

What sort of archaeologist only displays items in a mickey-mouse "museum" which cannot even be bothered to label its exhibits?

What sort of archaeologist breaks up what he excavates, and sells it on eBay?

No sort of archaeologist at all, and I'm not just talking about the Welsh contingent. Pretty much all of you other sad anorak BAAC amateurs are as pitiful as this lot, just a little less uninhibited.

We also read that when "Time Team" decided to swim in the murky waters of "Aviation Archaeology" by digging up a Spitfire in France, they unearthed human remains too. Glossed over that bit in the programme, despite the French having no law to protect crash sites.

At least they didn't feature wreckologists in home made jumpsuits with "Air Crash Investigator" badges (no doubt sewn on by their mums), as they did in certain other episodes. If you are willing to humiliate yourself that much to get on the telly, you should be auditioning for "Big Brother".

We got the following comment from the guy who makes little models from bits of crashed 'planes:

Your comments on your blog have been brought to my attention and I am concerned about them.

You have taken it upon yourself to question my companies integrity further more you have put a link to my web site with out my permission . This I fined very offensive.

My models are all made from legally obtained parts . Therefore I ask you to remove the link to my website, your comments about me, and publish a public apology. Within the next seven (7) days from the date of this letter. Your frailer to comply with my requests will leave me with no alternative but to seek professional advice re further action to be taken, regarding the deformation of my character.

With regards
Mr R Ruddock

We replied:

So someone has wound you up, and set you going, have they?

I suggest you go and get that legal advice before you write again. You seem not to understand your legal position.

Your legal advisor will tell you that a person who buys from thieves has not made a legal purchase, and that there is no legal requirement to ask permission to place a weblink to someone's web site.

My information is that no licence has been granted for this site. I will withdraw my comment and apologise unreservedly if you show me proof that the excavation which produced your raw materials was done under MOD licence.

Perhaps you could tell me who you bought your metal from, and whether you have seen a copy of the MOD licence to excavate?

In the absence of such evidence, I will continue to believe what I have been told, which implies that your company is making models (and money)from metal illegally removed from a war grave. Like any reasonable person, I consider this contemptible.

Some spelling lessons might be an idea too. Legal threats are so much more convincing when they come from people with an apparent reading age above ten, unlike yourself.

The words you were looking for were:

Company's
Without
Find
Failure
Defamation

Regards
Seán

Avro Anson Mk.I LT184 or Avro Anson Mk.I LT116?

Anson
Originally uploaded by wreckhunter

This is a shock absorber(known as an oleo strut or just an oleo to enthusiasts)from the undercarriage of one of what may be two Ansons wrecked on Mynydd Perfedd in Snowdonia, over a wreckage field measured by us as 0.4 miles across.

It is claimed that there are three sets of undercarriage mounting brackets at the site. One Anson contained only two such brackets, so it would prove that there are two Ansons in the wreckage spread over the hillside if three such brackets were found.

The condition of what we saw on the day however makes this far from clear. Less convincing yet are the arguments concerning which wreck site is which.

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Avro Anson Mk.I LT184 or Avro Anson Mk.I LT116?

Anson
Originally uploaded by wreckhunter

A illegible home-made plaque in what some claim to be the wreckage field of one of two Ansons crashed in this area .

I wonder if the plaque's writer thought he could identify which wreck was which? This website certainly does, though the plaques were readable back when he visited. Writing something on a plaque does not however make it a fact.

Location:SH 62837 62236

Avro Anson Mk.I LT184 or Avro Anson Mk.I LT116?

AnsonOriginally uploaded by wreckhunter

The remains of a second illegible plaque by what some think to be the centre of an individual wreckage field, seemingly written in Tipp-ex like the one at the Wellington site near to the Lincoln.

Location:SH 62666 62165

More info(shows the plaque in better condition)

Avro Anson Mk.I EF909 coded J3 or Avro Anson EG110?

Anson
Originally uploaded by wreckhunter

These definitely look like Anson bits on Foel Grach, but there is some controversy about which of the two Ansons which crashed near this location they come from. It might even be a consolidation pile of two wreck sites, as we have seen elsewhere. The engines described by others seem to have been removed by the local grave-robbers.

It is hard to know how to resolve the issue now, unless we can find a second site with identifiable bits nearby. The bits are too corroded to even carry any markings.

Since our visit, Alan and Mark from PDAAR claim to have found another site 1km distant which they believe is the crash site of EG110. There is a link to their report of the new site below. They have given us information which will probably to allow us to investigate their claim, which we will do in due course, probably when we have better information about the second "impossible" Anson wreck site location and N5371, to facilitate a twofer, or even a threefer.

Location: SH 69068 66625

More info(EF909)
More info(EG110)

Avro Anson Mk.I MG804

Anson
Originally uploaded by wreckhunter

The usual undercarriage components at the crash site of this Anson on Foel Fras.

Location: SH 69617 67586

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Foel Lwyd and Drum: Avro Anson VV995?

Anson?
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig2

We went to Foel Lwyd and Drum in Snowdonia yesterday in some pretty nasty weather. Actually there seem to be two hills, two miles apart, marked Foel Lwyd on the OS map, but as it turned out we climbed both of them.

We ascended the first Foel Lwyd to look for Avro Anson VV995. Took no metal detector, as we were expecting big wreckage, based on the old reports.

Nothing visible at the coordinates given in High Ground Wrecks, which rated the site as "Medium"sized, or at the coords given by RJMP, who visited these sites in the seventies. This cairn was however found about four hundred feet from either coordinate.

We are going to have to do this one again with the metal detector. Note that the coordinates given below, and all coordinates on here from now on should have enhanced accuracy, as we upgraded our GPSr to one which averages many readings to give an estimated +/- 4m accuracy.

Location:SH 72245 72102

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Avro Anson Mk. 1 AX583

Anson:Drum
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig2

The undercarriage from this Anson, which crashed on the slopes of Drum in Snowdonia on 25th April 1944.

There is a burned scar on the marshy ground behind this, with an assortment of bits and formerly molten aluminium.

The bits reported to have been spread downhill were not visible to us. If the reports are true, these were probably washed down by the nearby stream, and are probably somewhere in its present or former bed, if they were not "recovered" by the usual suspects.

Location:SH 71684 69790

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Avro Anson Mk.I LT433 coded MI

Anson:Llyn Cowlyd
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig2

Wreckage (mostly undercarriage and engine components) from the crash site of an Anson above Llyn Cowlyd.

Unburned wreckage like this is spread around this area, and there are also burned spots with previously molten aluminium close by.

Location:SH 72753 63532

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Flying Lanc

I see on Sky news this morning that the last UK flying Lanc. is going to make a few passes over Derwent Dam today. We are however off to Wales, and we have seen it before anyway, when we had our own personal overflight out on the moors...