Merry Wreckhunting Christmas!

From Seán and Mick

Armstrong Vickers Wellington Mk. II W5365

Made a quick side trip today to Tollerton airport and Cotgrave to see the crash site and memorials for Wellington W5365, which stalled on approach and crashed into an oak tree 200m short.

A DFM was awarded to one of the crew, Robert Tomlinson for rescuing the pilot from the burning 'plane.

Location: SK 63057 37057

Avro Lancaster Mk. III NE132

This appropriately sombre picture shows the memorial to the crew of Lancaster NE132 at the site of their fatal 6th February 1945 crash.

It lies in the middle of an extensive (but nevertheless hard to find) wreckage trail down the flank of Rhinog Fawr in South Snowdonia, Wales.

It's pretty accessible by high ground wreck site standards, though the 50mph winds and driving rain reduced accessibility a bit for us last Saturday. Without assistance from Matt ZX, we'd undoubtedly have blanked here as we did on our last attempt. The site is a very long way from the High Ground Wrecks coordinates.

This is the only crash site listed as a War Grave in Wales, but this didn't stop someone taking away the only two engines on the site which were not completely shattered around ten years ago.

As we know, wreckologists aren't squeamish about graverobbing, but for whatever reason, the shattered remains of much of the 'plane and two of of the crew are still there on the hillside, rather than gracing some sad anorak's shed.

With the new rules from CADW, they will hopefully now remain undisturbed for years to come.

Location: SH 63736 28879

Avro Lancaster Mk. III NE132

This mixture of wreckage and rocks contuinues for several hundred metres. Some details are shown below

0.303 bullets

Propeller Boss

Avro Lancaster Mk. III NE132

The bottom of the wreckage trail, where a substantial wall stops the bits falling further down the hill. if you click through to the higher resolution version, you can see the crank from a shattered Merlin engine, as well as armour plate and undercarriage components.

The two stolen engines used to lie here also. Does anyone know who took them?

Location: SH 63720 28916

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Aircraft Wrecks: The Walker's Guide: Historic Crash Sites on the Moors and Mountains of the British Isles

We are getting reports of inaccuracies and errors in Clark and Wotherspoon's so-called "Walkers Guide". We don't want to judge prematurely, so are investigating.

Our initial comment is this -walkers (or "bobble-hatted numpties" as Alan Clark likes to call us) don't want a guide which is a big hardback book, contains no walking routes, has only approximate (and perhaps inaccurate) coordinates, and has pages of stuff about what the flight crew had for breakfast.

Surely they want something more like the old "High Ground Wrecks", only more precise and accurate, with GPS verified 6 dp coordinates, and a few words about the circumstances of the crash.

But of course we give you that for nowt. Comments and reports on errors in the "guide" are invited.

Vickers Armstrong Wellington Mk.IC DV718

A tough 19k in fog and rain brought us precious little of this aircraft which crashed at night in low cloud and rain on Riggs Moor.

The poor visibility around here which did for all but one of the crew of the Wellington has caused us a few problems too. The weather was relatively fine until we came to the search area, and visibility then dropped dramatically, just as it did last time we were here.

We were out of light before we had a chance to complete our search, and had to do a couple of K over cloughs and groughs in the dark, which was a good navigation exercise. We found this lightweight bit, around 400mm square, but I'm pretty sure we were almost 100m from the main site.

The crash site is big, and having been assured it could be seen from 100m (if only you could see that far), we are certain we will get the main site at our next attempt, (especially as I spotted it on Google Earth this morning!)

Location: SE 02205 73365

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Vickers Armstrong Wellington Mk. III BK405

A bit of an easy walk with Pat Cunningham this afternoon at the Boylestone site of the fatal crash of this Wellington shortly after take-off.

This was the most convincing scrap we found in a reasonably thorough metal detector search, despite a report that the field was so littered with metallic scraps three years ago that you wouldn't need a metal detector to find them.

The magpies have struck again!

Location: SK 20342 35419

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World's End : Flying Whale

Back to World's End above Wrexham last Saturday for another crack at the numerous wrecksites up there. Matt ZX was with us this time, which often improves our luck.

As last time we saw the "Beluga" which ferries bits of Airbus between factories, but this time we actually found a wreck-site, that which most people think is that of a Beaufighter.

High heather made for tough going, and we had to pack it in after only six hours. We had a good look for the Mustang and Vampire wreck sites in that time, mind. We will return when we have better data.

Bristol Beaufighter Mk. X NE203

This is what others have shown as the state of the site, a scar with a few scraps. The nearby burial pit has far more stuff, though.

Location: SJ 23924 48274

Bristol Beaufighter Mk. X NE203

This looks to be a burial pit with signs of recent digging and fresh-looking bits of aluminium. This is where most of the wreckage we saw was located.

Location:SJ 23933 48268

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There are serial numbers on the wreckage as pictured below

also an inspector's stamp

Urra Moor

A day out above Chop Gate yesterday proved far more successful than our previous outing. As the photo shows, the area is pretty flat in the main, with some deepish gullies containing watercourses.

The High Ground Wrecks coordinates are absolutely rubbish in this area, as so often in Yorkshire, which we proved by finding the actual locations of two or three wreck sites.

The easy ground allowed us to get round the 15k planned, and visit the 6 locations where we though something might be found despite a late start.

We came down in the dark, but there was fair amount of moonlight, so it wasn't the big deal it might have been on a less forgiving bit of high ground, or less favourable weather. I didn't even get my jumper out all day...

Armstrong Vickers Wellington Mk.III BJ778 ZL-AD

All that remains of "A for Apple", (which was one of the most complete crash sites in the country) are these few rusty scraps, with previously molten and corroded scraps of aluminium all around.

Follow the link below to see what happened.

Location: SE 58035 99440

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Bristol Blenheim Mk.1F L1449

A few scraps which were missed by the multiple waves of looters who have visited the site of this Blenheim crash, found by an attractive waterfall in the pine wood planted since the crash.

Engines used to lie in the stream bed nearby, but we all know how those magpies love an engine.

As ever, no-one seem to know where the stolen parts are now, or exactly who it was who took them away.

Location: SE 60416 99817

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Avro Lancaster Mk. 1 W4233 or Blenheim L1449?

We found this bit far higher on the hill than the Blenheim remains by the waterfall. It is downhill from the hilltop thought by many to be the crash site of the Lancaster, and a long way uphill from the nearer Blenheim site.

Things tend not to fall uphill, though the flecks of green paint do look to be the same shade as those on the Blenheim bit in the previous pic.

Discarded by a souvenir hunter, or just maybe a bit from the Lancaster missed by the anoraks?

Location:SE 60366 99962

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Martin Marauder B-26G 44-68072

We went to Snowdonia's Y Garn for the third time yesterday, to document the wreckage trail we spied from the top on our last visit to the mountain.

Once you are in the right Cwm (Cywion), there are fragments everywhere, far more numerous and more sizeable than are suggested by other internet writers.

The right way up was such an easy walk compared with the wrong ways tried previously that we had time to try out the famous Pete's Eats in Llanberis afterwards-not bad at all. Big portions, if a bit pricey.

This undercarriage strut (around 1.5m long) is one of the three originally used in the Marauder's tricycle undercarriage. There is reportedly a second leg like this still at the site, but the third seems to have gone missing.

This one lies quite a short distance from the stream bed where much of the rest of the wreckage is to be found, but is not as visually obvious as the rest of the parts from ground level.

Location: SH 63149 60150

Martin Marauder B-26G 44-68072

This collection of parts we found by the side of the stream is clustered around a steel component around 500mm long. They are too mangled for accurate identification.

Location: SH 63146 60301

Martin Marauder B-26G 44-68072

At the top of the stream we found these fairly sizeable components, which used to support the undercarriage leg seen in the post above, according to the Aero Part Identify Board posters.

Location: SH 63112 60187

Martin Marauder B-26G 44-68072

These bits of armour plate were the highest fragments of any size we found. We are told they come from the crew's seats.

Other internet sites claim that only a few scraps of armour plate remain, but that is clearly not the case, as we have shown in this series of posts, which themselves only show perhaps 25% of what is there.

What happened to the remainder? We have little to add to David Earl's account.

Location: SH 63095 60149

Diggers Thwarted in Wales

New CADW guidelines (ISBN 978 1 85760 267 8) set out a rigorous code of best practice which should see the archaeologically worthless activities of the so-called "aviation archaeologists" pretty much stopped in Wales. Nice work, CADW!

The guidelines basically require excavation to be carried out in a professional manner, in accordance with the archaeologist's code of conduct, standard and guidance for archaeological excavation.

JCBs will not be featuring in future excavations.

They also intend to enforce preservation in-situ of nationally important sites, and the scheduling of crash sites as ancient monuments.

Amateur hour is over, boyos! And not a moment too soon.

Ribblehead Viaduct and Whernside

Up onto yet another Whernside in Yorkshire, this one above the Ribblehead Viaduct (pictured). Interesting weather and light throughout the day, Mick got some good snaps.

A relatively easy walk, only 12k and not too much ascent to see a couple of WWII wreck sites. What with having had swine flu and so on, we weren't up for a mad yomp. Nice walk, and down in time for tea for once.

Despite High Ground Wrecks being as rubbish as ever in Yorkshire, we found both sites we were going for. I hadn't realised how much these two sites had been picked over by wreckologists until I did the post-walk research. Sad. But then they are sad.

Fairey Barracuda Mk.II DR306

What appear to be wing/ hardpoint components from this Barracuda torpedo bomber which crashed into Whernside on 15th December 1945.

There apparently used to be a big chunk of wing here, but it was probably stolen by the "York Aircraft Preservation Society".

What a fantastic name for an organisation which destroys wreck sites, it's worthy of George Orwell's 1984.

Of course like all of these loose associations of saddoes it has disbanded in time, and its stolen "treasures" have gone missing, who knows where.

Those imagined museums never come to fruition quite as you hoped, do they lads? Maybe a few pointless bits of tangled metal are collected in some unvisited Nissen hut somewhere, but more usually items (all too often stolen from war graves) are collected simply to be thrown out by your parents for those few of you who go on to get a life.

Don't imagine I'm implying that all involved are of school age, just that they probably live with their parents. And need to get a life.

Location SD 74201 80331

Fairey Barracuda Mk.II DR306

A drystone wall "repaired" with bits of torpedo bomber. Click on pic to zoom in if you can't see it.

I'm not sure I agree with the suggestion that this is supposed to be a wall repair.

It just looks like the standard farmer's trick of throwing bits of aircraft wreckage to the edge of the field to me.

Two reasons why I don't think it is a repair-there's no hole in the wall, and in the National Park farmers get paid to repair dry stone walls properly.

In National Parks farmers are more like caretakers, really.

Location:SD 74246 80387

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Armstrong Vickers Wellington Mk III BK347 Coded Q

You missed a bit, anoraks! A lonely fragment of the eight and a half tonnes of bomber which crashed into the hillside on 21st April 1944 whilst on a cross country flight from Hixon.

There are closer shots of it over on the flickr site, I just liked way the sky looks in this one.

This may well be all that is now left above ground at the site, as it has been been serially looted since then by "enthusiasts", many of who amusingly refer to themselves collectively as "Preservation Societies", as discussed previously.

No-one outside the world of "aviation archaeology" knows where the rest of this 'plane is, and even in that world, no-one is telling.

Location: SD 74157 81562

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Armstrong Whitworth Whitley Mk. V T4136

Some "Aviation Enthusiasts" nearly came a cropper here.

The bomb was found in the bucket of their JCB, according to The Independent, so obviously good archaeological practice was (as ever for wreckologists) not the No. 1 priority!

I am led to believe Eliott Smock of "The Whitley Project" was the digger in question. Perhaps he would have been better to leave well alone.

He has said since the original date of the posting that he makes no claim to be an archaeologist, and is just digging to get parts to attempt to make a museum piece.

It's nice that he does not have the common delusions of grandeur, but even if you are a house-builder, wouldn't it be better to allow professional archaeologists to make the maximum possible use of your dig site?

If you are going to drive a digger through a crash site, you will irreversibly destroy the archaeological evidence.

Why not follow the new CADW guidelines, even if you are not required to do so by law?

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Location SE 889 818

DeHavilland Vampire FB5 VZ106

The main pile of the still-extensive wreckage from this early jet-powered Fighter/Bomber which crashed on the slopes of Fan Hir, in the Black Mountains in Wales in 1953.

The pilot apparently let down through thick cloud without getting a fix on his position or requesting a radar-controlled descent, resulting in his death.

The wreckage constituted a more or less complete aircraft until 1986, since when the usual suspects have taken it upon themselves to "recover" some of it.

Location: SN 82641 20037

(There are also some big chunks of wreckage in a nearby gully around SN 8258 1990)

DeHavilland Vampire FB5 VZ106

The Vampire's distinctive twin booms are well preserved at this site

DeHavilland Vampire FB5 VZ106

The Goblin 2 turbojet engine from the aircraft is still in place, rather than serving as a garage ornament for some sad anorak as so many engines now do.

Location: SN 82641 20047

Avro Anson Mk. 1 L9149

Second 'plane of the day. More or less all that remains of this Anson which became disorientated and crashed in thick cloud and rain on Fan Brycheiniog in January 1939 are these globs of formerly molten aluminium and rusty scraps of steel.

There is a memorial to this crash and the associated rescue operation at the church in Glyntawe, at the foot of these hills, as previously featured on our site

Location: SN 82499 21249

Avro Anson Mk. I EG472

Avro Anson EG472
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

We approached Moel Hebog from a new direction yesterday, resulting in our locating the undercarriage, wheels, fuel tank and other less recognisable wreckage left by the crash of Anson EG472 into the mountain, (and of course the subsequent raiding by local "aviation archaeologists" for their mickey mouse "museum").

It wasn't as easy as we expected, as chest-high bracken which didn't show on the map impeded our progress up the steepest part of the hill.

The picture shows a detail from the undercarriage winding gear of Avro Anson EG472 of 9 OAFU Llandwrog which crashed on the 13th of June 1944 into Moel Hebog (above Beddgelert in Snowdonia).

The 'plane reportedly flew into the North face of the mountain in low cloud and bad visibility on a night navigation exercise.

Turbulence was experienced at 6,000 ft and the Bombardier asked the pilot if he could descend to a calmer altitude.

The Navigator stated they were over Hawarden so the descent was made and the aircraft struck the mountain. One Sgt. Howard was thrown clear and survived, but the other four crew were all killed in the crash.

We don't normally bother with crash report details on here, but there's nothing on the internet about the circumstances of this crash at present.

Location: SH 56890 46948

Grumman Avenger Mk.II JZ390

Wast Water Avenger
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig2

On the rock in the foreground is a scrap of the Royal Navy Air Service Grumman Avenger ship-borne torpedo bomber which flew into a cliff on the 16th January 1945, on a training flight from RNAS Inskip in Lancashire.

The 'plane's engine is allegedly in the lake shown in the background (Wast Water at the foot of Sca Fell in the Lake District).

Eeh, Mick's new camera takes an atmospheric picture...

Location: NY 14648 03913

Countryfile

Countryfile's article on the peak plane wreck sites may have been the cause of the massive spike in visitor numbers to the site over the weekend.

At least they sent out a competent presenter guided by a local MRT volunteer to the Shelf Stones Superfortress site, rather than the clueless floppy-haired double act possibility: Ben Fogle and Alan Clark. Imagine that if you will.
























Oh dear-here's that Mountain Rescue Team volunteer leading his colleagues in the "recovery" from the site of what is described as a gun turret, previously hidden by kids back in 1948.

I'd be interested to know whether they had a licence from the MOD for the operation. If they have, we could have told them where there was one in much better condition.

Boeing B-17 G Flying Fortress 44-8683

Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress 44-8683
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig2

A long trek over boggy terrain above Kettlewell in the Yorkshire Dales yesterday yielded only one confirmed site, this collection of scraps from a Flying Fortress crashed in cloud in May 1945.

Location:SE 00053 72764

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Supermarine Spitfire Mk. I X4588

Supermarine Spitfire X4588
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

A day out in the Brecon Beacons yesterday located the crash site of Spitfire X4588, fatally crashed by Sgt. D P Carruthers during a formation flying exercise in May 1942 probably as a result of a combination of bad weather and a slight navigation error.

The efforts of the local National Park staff in the Brecons to prevent the activities of magpies (as previously reported) are probably the reason for this being our most extensive Spitfire wreckage visited to date.

Location: SO 01677 18458

Snowdon Revisit

Sean and Matt with 'Copter
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig2

A hot day on Snowdon yesterday. Imagine that.

Helicopters were all over keeping an eye on things, and in the case of the Sea King seen near the summit, presumably taking part in a rescue exercise. This littler one ( top right of frame) went back and forth up and down Cwm Llan for the better part of an hour.

We found the rest of the DH Mosquito we missed last time, as well as the scant remains of the Spitfire on Yr Aran, with the assistance of Matt ZX.

Now we have found it, we can reveal that you won't need our coordinates to find the Mosquito wreckage. Just follow the river, you can't miss it, throughout the stream bed, and around its banks.

The Spitfire is more elusive, and on steep unstable ground above a good drop. Even that has not prevented fresh looting, however, as we report lower down the page.

On a technical note, all pics are now taken with Micks' new camera, and have much better resolution than previously if you click through...

De Havilland Mosquito Mk.III TV982

De Havilland Mosquito Mk.III TV982
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig2

Propeller boss

Location: SH 61048 52930

De Havilland Mosquito Mk.III TV982

De Havilland Mosquito Mk.III TV982
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig2

Detail from collection further upstream

Location: SH 61085 52982

De Havilland Mosquito Mk.III TV982

De Havilland Mosquito Mk.III TV982
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

This engine bearer used to hold one of the Mosquito's Rolls-Royce Merlin engines.

Of course even if engine and bearer had survived the crash together, this would have been discarded by the scrap merchants when they took the Merlin away to their "Museum".

Mick was telling me that Mr Doylerush was under the impression that the local magpies had told him the stuff they were scavenging was for a millenium museum in Bethesda.

We saw no signs of any such musem on our way through. Would anyone like to tell us what happened to the Bethesda Millennium Museum, and the engines looted on the basis that they were to be exhibits there?

Location: SH 61086 52980

De Havilland Mosquito Mk.III TV982

De Havilland Mosquito Mk.III TV982
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

This is the most upstream collection we found, mostly comprising undercarriage parts.

Location: SH 61086 52993

Supermarine Spitfire Mk. I X4843

Supermarine Spitfire Mk. I X4843
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

All that remains of the Spitfire crashed on Yr Aran are these few scraps.

These are less still than Matt ZX saw only as far back as April.

This piece of perspex, and chunk of armour plate have been taken from the site since then.

If you click on the pic and zoom in , you can see that the plate is marked with the year of manufacture, 1940.

The magpies like nothing better than a Spitfire. Consequently even the few bits not yet misappropriated may be the most we have seen left at a Spitfire crash site!

Interestingly, I am told that the missing bits apparently feature in the photos of the crash site on the PDAAR website, which were taken very shortly before we visited.

Location: SH 60615 51687

Lack of posts, Ebay and Bulgaria

Won't be going out today, for the second week running. Mick agreed to drive an ancient truck his mate bought on ebay to Bulgaria last week, and he's not back yet.

I hear it's all a bit Borat as soon as you are away from the tourist coast in Bulgaria, for anyone else thinking of buying a house out there sight unseen on ebay, as the truck's owner has.

I should imagine if Mick has managed to live through the experience, he'll have a few stories.

The Foreign and Commonwealth office's website advises you not to argue with aggressive drivers in Bulgaria as they may be armed, and that criminals dressed as traffic cops may impose fines on you or even "impound your vehicle".

Driving a knackered truck to a previously unseen house bought on the internet in a country with highwaymen. What could possibly go wrong?

De Havilland Mosquito Mk.III TV982

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De Havilland Mosquito Mk.III TV982
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

This undistinguished looking item around 100mm in diameter was our only reward for getting rained on for five hours in the vicinity of the Watkin Path to Snowdon's peak, on a very wet Bank Holiday Monday.

If you zoom in, you can see it is marked J98978/1. The "98" prefix makes it a bit of a Mosquito, specifically we believe Mosquito TV982, which crashed here in 1948 as a result of severe turbulence. We think it is a rubber damper from an undercarriage leg.

We had to beat a hasty retreat shortly after finding this, as Mick's fags had got wet. All other possible emergencies pale into insignificance next to the spectre of nicotine deprivation.

We will be back for the rest in the near future.

Location: SH 61119 52762

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Martin Marauder B-26G 44-68072

Martin Marauder B-26G 44-68072
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

A day out with Matt ZX to see if we could find anything from the Marauder crash site on Y Garn yesterday.

The photo shows what we believe to be the impact point of this medium bomber of the Western face of Y Garn, Snowdonia. The parallel lines of scree are deepish scrapes which have filled over time with small stones. The site location was proven correct by the presence of some distinctive bits of aircraft aluminium, as shown in the entry below.

David Earl reports that the aircraft broke in two from here, with one bit staying with one of the crew on the Llanberis side, and the remainder of the crew and 'plane going over the edge to break up and scatter in the valley below. An old-time wreckhunter has written to tell us that by the early 60s only the props lay on this side of the hillside, the wing sections seemingly having been pushed over the cliff.

Using telescopes and binoculars from the summit, we established that the undercarriage and other bits not weighed in for scrap by the local magpies are still present. We will return by the Eastern route to get photos and accurate locations for the scattered wreckage on a later trip.

Location of impact point: SH 62842 59856

Location of undercarriage:SH 631 602

Martin Marauder B-26G 44-68072

Martin Marauder B-26G 44-68072
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

Site proving debris

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Airspeed Oxford Mk.I HN429

Airspeed Oxford Mk.I HN429
Originally uploaded by seansonofbig

Revisited the Axe Edge Oxford site with Welsh Barry today. All seems to be in order.

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Fi-103 (V-1) Cruise Missile: Langsett

On Featherbed Top on Howden Moor, there is a bare patch which many including Alan Clark and Pat Cunningham have claimed is the site of a V1 crash. We have visited the site a couple of times previously, and gone with the consensus identification up to now, but we no longer think that the consensus is correct.

Following information received, we have looked into claims from "Tomsk" that this site is not in fact a V1 crater, but that the true crater lies 3/4 km away. After visiting the alternative location today, we are happy that this is the case, for the following reasons:

1. The new crater (illustrated) is very similar in appearance to the one on Black Edge, known to be a V1 site.

2. We found twisted, rusty heavy gauge steel components (illustrated) around the crater identical in appearance to those we found at the Black Edge site. Mick's doing his Big Vern face in this shot.

3. The aluminium parts we found previously (now removed by persons unknown) at the supposed V1 crater correspond to nothing we have seen at V1 sites elsewhere.

4. We have seen no other V1 sites which are a flat black scar on the peat like the supposed V1 site on Howden Moor. All other sites are sharp-sided craters like the new candidate.

5. We have evidence from Tomsk that scraps found at the supposed V1 crater come instead from a Luftmine B parachute mine. Here's a Luftmine B:

Note the distinctive cross section of the fins, and their five rivets. Here's a bit recovered from the old site with that cross section and five rivets:

6. Tomsk also identifies parts found at the new site as belonging to a V1. Here's the bolt which holds the warhead on on a museum piece:

Here's something which looks very similar recovered from the site:

Here's the guillotine mechanism which cuts the cables to send the V1 into a dive:

So our initial scepticism has been greatly tempered. The new location seems far more likely to be correct than the commonly held one. The sixth comment on this post also contains seemingly confirmatory information from the Imperial War Museum including these pics. Thanks Dave.

It'll be interesting if others modify their opinions and websites to suit. More interesting still will be who they credit-Mick tells me that Alan Clark for one is simply following us around the sites we have visited in Wales nowadays without crediting us, judging by the updates to his site.

New Location: SK 18224 97083